The SNPs M91, P97, M31, P82, M23, M114, P262, M32, M59, P289, P291, P102, M13, M171, M118 from haplogroup A and SNPs M60, M181, P90 from haplogroup B are missing in people without recent African ancestry. Considering these are the earliest humans in Africa, perhaps someone could explain genetically why they don't exist in non African populations?


Klyosov, A. A. (2011a). The slowest 22 marker haplotype panel (out of the 67 marker panel) and their mutation rate constants employed for calculations timespans to the most ancient common ancestors. Pro- ceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy

Cruciani, F., Trombetta, B., Sellitto, D., Massaia, A., Destro-Bisol, G., Watson, E., et al. (2010). Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: A paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan con- nections and the spread of Chadic languages. European Journal of Human Genetics, 18, 800-807.

Simms, T. M., Martinez, E., Herrera, K. J., Wright, M. R., Perez, O. A., Hernandez, M. et al. (2011). Paternal lineages signal distinct genetic contributions from British Loyalists and continental Africans among different Bahamian islands. American Journal of Physical Anthro- pology, 146, 594-608. doi:10.1002/ajpa.21616

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    $\begingroup$ What do you mean by "Considering these are the earliest humans in Africa"? Who are "these"? Do you mean "Considering that the earliest humans arose in Africa"? And please provide links to the papers you quote and tell us whether any explanations are suggested there. $\endgroup$ – David Aug 3 '18 at 12:21
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    $\begingroup$ Without reading the link papers, I would assume that some african lineages carry these haplogroup. Not all. If this is true, there is really nothing surprising. If it is still surprising to you, can please explain why? $\endgroup$ – Remi.b Aug 3 '18 at 14:22
  • $\begingroup$ @David honestly this question is not my own. I didn't find the papers my self, I only used google scholar to get some of the pdf. The guy seemed adamant that the lack of these certain nucleotides were evidence for there being essentially a species discrepancy, with Asians and Europeans never having an ancestral background commonality with subsaharan Africans. A denial of the Out of africa theory. I am just interested in how close or different, any of your arguments would be with the ones which I had posited in opposition. $\endgroup$ – timi95 Aug 3 '18 at 19:42
  • $\begingroup$ Unfortunately, although this may be interesting, you really need to do the background research yourself if you hope someone here will take the time to consider your question. Of course, there may be someone familiar with the story, but the response so far isn't too encouraging. $\endgroup$ – David Aug 5 '18 at 16:13

It looks like the information presented in the question is not reliable. Taking the first two Y SNPs mentioned, M91 and P97, it says these "are missing in people without recent African ancestry." Yet Wikipedia says that M91 and P97 are defining mutations of haplogroup BT and that

Macrohaplogroup BT has been found in populations on every continent, since prehistoric times. It is the progenitor clade of the paternal haplogroups B and CT.

This implies that M91 and P97 are present in "people without recent African ancestry" (excepting back-mutations), in conflict with the assertion in the question.

However, this view has apparently evolved a bit, as the "haplogroup A" article says:

A major shift in the understanding of the Y-DNA tree came with the publication of (Cruciani 2011). While the SNP marker M91 had been regarded as a key to identifying haplogroup BT, it was realised that the region surrounding M91 was a mutational hotspot, which is prone to recurrent back-mutations. Moreover, the 8T stretch of Haplogroup A represented the ancestral state of M91, and the 9T of haplogroup BT a derived state, which arose following the insertion of 1T. This explained why subclades A1b and A1a, the deepest branches of Haplogroup A, both possessed the 8T stretch. Similarly, the P97 marker, which was also used to identify haplogroup A, possessed the ancestral state in haplogroup A, but a derived state in haplogroup BT.[5] Ultimately the tendency of M91 to back-mutate and (hence) its unreliability, led to M91 being discarded as a defining SNP by ISOGG in 2016.[43] Conversely, P97 has been retained as a defining marker of Haplogroup BT.

So this indicates that haplogroup BT, which includes most or all men historically outside of Africa, does not reliably display mutation M91, but does display P97. I'm not going to research all the other SNPs (especially since the three references don't seem to be very relevant), but I think this much indicates the assumptions of the question are not coherent enough for a good answer.

  • $\begingroup$ This clears up a lot. $\endgroup$ – timi95 Aug 4 '18 at 16:03

Haplogroup B is descended from R


Among the R clade's descendant haplogroups are B, U (and thus K), F, R0 (and thus HV, H, and V), and JT (the ancestral haplogroup of J and T).

Therefore the human race originated in Tibet and out of Africa actually happened in reverse.


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